Archive for the ‘chats’ Category

chats | aric s. queen ::

Monday, April 20th, 2009

Aric S. Queen:: Aric S. Queen is currently roaming around the United States on his friend’s bus – aimlessly from what I can gather. Additionally though, he’s a Clear Channel radio / television host, a former executive producer of ChinesePod.com, , and Soul Fire Radio, executive producer of the Johnson & Johnson “Bao Bao Radio” series, director / producer of “Theshanghaishow,” and “.” In his spare time, which he has a lot of, he used to (he also used to write about for Shanghaiist) and previously wrote a column for City Weekend (Shanghai). His previous daily vlog that used to be sent to US and UK televisions, titled: “Shanghai Diaries” (on Current TV) earned him the 2008 “Most Prolific Vlogger Award,” and now has now been combined with his travel / lifestyle show entitled “Shanghai [Exile] Diaires,” also on Current TV. And now, as if he needs more on his plate, Aric recently launched a superb new podcast called “Rough Sundays,” featuring old gospel, blues, folk, Motown, and an eclectic spattering of everything else. I caught up with Aric over the weekend to learn a bit more about his latest endeavor. Follow Aric on Twitter at: .

56minus1: Tell us about your new show, what is “Rough Sundays” all about?

Aric S. Queen: You ever have a foggy morning the day after a big night at the pub? This show is the soundtrack – old gospel, blues, jazz, folk, and a shitload of Otis Redding. Something that goes well with 3 cups of coffee, some pancakes, and half-a-pack of cigarettes on a day that probably won’t see your face.

56minus1: What was the inspiration behind doing this show?

Aric S. Queen: Well, it came about by a few experiences – when I lived in Shanghai, my girlfriend at the time and I seemingly used to have one too many the night before so we could play Coltrane and Herbie Hancock all day; Sherpas (a Shanghai food delivery service) on redial and not changing out of our sweats – that was the first. The second was when I moved back to the States and on a Sunday morning was on the way with my dad to this old country church, so I threw on this cd by the ‘Roberta Martin Singers’ and as soon as the first track came on, we both kind of looked at eachother and winked – that’s when I realized that if two generations could agree on a track, I was onto something.

56minus1: After the first few episodes, how’s the response been so far?

Aric S. Queen: 15,000+ listens / downloads in less than 3 weeks.

56minus1: Who / what are some things we won’t hear on this show?

Aric S. Queen: Well, that’s tough, you know? I mean, there’s the obvious, a tune that would have to be played loud. Nor would I play any of this ‘new gospel’ shit, but, I mean, take Otis Redding for example, my favorite artist and someone I’ll always end the show with, but half of his tracks are more 3am plays, as opposed to 11am. Same goes for Leonard Cohen, Patti Smith, Zeppelin, Serge Gainsbourg, et al; so, hopefully, you’ll never hear a track that brings you down, although, if you’re going through your own stuff, I can’t help that. People might be surprised by the hip hop I want to incorporate though, I mean, there are some amazing tracks by (A) Tribe (Called Quest), Gang Starr, Mos Def and more that would fit perfectly, but I’ll probably have to introduce those slowly.

56minus1: Safe to say this is your favorite type of music?

Aric S. Queen: Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, my time in Shanghai was spent on that quote/unquote “indie” circuit, although it was only “indie” because there wasn’t much of a scene. I was raised on Otis and The Temptations and have yet to find any artist who compares. in fact, I’ve never met anyone who has a bad thing to say about Motown – which should tell you something. Plus, the scene these days is so fucking saturated by anyone with garageband and a Myspace, I can’t imagine liking anything else.

56minus1: Equipment question – you’ve recorded so far from a bus in the Florida keys, SXSW in Austin, and we’ve heard rumors of a show being done from Wayne Coyne’s (Flaming Lips lead singer) home – what gear are you using for all of this?

Aric S. Queen: Ha. okay, well, first off, there’s a chance I’ll be over at Wayne’s when we pass through Oklahoma City. One of the people on the bus I live with [56minus1 editorial note: Queen is currently traveling the U.S. in a 48 foot touring bus with 2 other friends] is quite close to him, so if he’s there, we’ll sit down and run through his “Sunday Pics” – but it’s not set in stone. Per the gear, man, of all the years I’ve been in the biz, I can honestly say that the Zoom H2 Portable Recorder is the most amazing mic I’ve ever put my hands on. We’ve had it in-studio recording demos with a 5-piece (band), I used it as a boom on a shoot, I tape my voice-overs for it, and it’s perfect for podcasting. Seriously, check out the reviews on Amazon, it’s insane – all for under $300. If you’re thinking about any of the things I just mentioned, pick one up. If you don’t like it, I’ll buy it off of ya.

56minus1: How much did the makers of Zoom H2 Portable Recorder pay you to whore for it’s product on my blog?

Aric S. Queen: I know, right? In all seriousness, when you’ve gone through portable recorder after portable recorder and finally find one worth the hype and cheap – it deserves to be mentioned. But I like the cheeky way of mentioning you get a lot of traffic on your site.

56minus1: A rumor – you raised money for this show / tech on your blog?

Aric S. Queen: True. I spent all of my money in India a few months back, but really wanted to get this show off the ground, so I just mentioned on my blog that if I could get 10 people to sponsor $45 each (and in turn, I’d plug their charity or whatever), I could do it; and within a week, I had the cash; really amazing, to be honest.

56minus1: Favorite song played to date?

Aric S. Queen: Ugh, can you change that to ’songs’? I’ll give ya 5 and will purposely leave out Otis Redding (even though ‘For Your Precious Love’ is the single handed best song ever written in the history of writing music):

Lou Reed – Caroline Says (part two)
The Roberta Martin Singers – The Old Ship of Zion
Nick Drake – Saturday Sun
Mavis Staples / Lucky Peterson – Wade in the Water
The Benny Goodman Boys – Blue (and Broken Hearted)

…agh! now I want to go back and change 3 of those. Okay, ask the next question before I can change it up.

56minus1: When and where can we find the new show?

Aric S. Queen: Every Sunday on Roughsundays.com, but tell me what nice things I’d need to do to cross-post it here as well, ha ha.

56minus1: Thanks Aric

[56minus1 editorial note: Aric will be cross-posting "Rough Sundays" on 56minus1.com; it is archived here. Embedded below is the latest show, episode 3, with everything from funk-to-indie, a black Jew-to-Scottish folktronica, a 10-foot tall Satan, and more. It's excellent.]

// AjS

chats | kenneth tan ::

Sunday, April 19th, 2009

Kenneth Tan:: since 2007 Kenneth Tan has been the editor and main contributor to Shanghaiist.com, a popular English language blog focused on Shanghai. I caught up with Ken for a short chat about his new job at Gays.com, the “digital” gay scene in China, and his men’s lingerie shop MANifesto.com.cn. Follow Ken on Twitter at .

56minus1: I hear you are leaving your role at Shanghaiist.com what the hell are they going to do with out you?

Kenneth Tan: Haha. Yes, after two years of non-stop editing, it’s just time to move on to a new challenge. Shanghaiist is going to do fine without me. Elaine Chow, our new editor, who also writes for Gizmodo, has been doing one helluva kickass job. I will still be posting on Shanghaiist every now and then, just not daily like I used to.

56minus1: Do you want to contribute to 56minus1?

Kenneth Tan: Would love to but don’t think I can spare the time Adam! As it is, I can barely find time to write my own blog!

56minus1: I understand you have been working on a new site called Gays.com – what is your role there?

Kenneth Tan:  Yes I’ve been working on Gays.com for about one and a half years now. I help devise the overall strategy and direction of the network and also take care of marketing and corporate communications for the site.

56minus1: Tell us a little bit about Gays.com. Start with how you guys managed to secure get such a, uh, perfect URL?

Kenneth Tan: Our purchase of the domain name Gays.com in late 2006 for the price of USD 500,000 was one of the most talked about sales in the domain name industry for that year. It took us a while to decide what to do with the site, but eventually we chose to position Gays.com as the world’s first social network for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community for real people, real names, and real world connections. You see, prior to Gays.com, gay and lesbian social networks were either dating or hookup sites, and so for obvious reasons, the two communities never really got to mingle together online. We’re here to bridge the gap and build a social network that will include people from across the LGBT spectrum. We’re also here to challenge people to step out with their real names and identities, and not hide behind an online nickname like they’re used to. It’s about time the gay Internet landscape came out of the closet!

56minus1: Tell us more about the sites users and general demographics.

Kenneth Tan: Gays.com is currently shaping up to be a very international community. Our 60,000 members come from 145 countries across all six continents and represented among the top cities on the network are a good mix of North American, European and Asian cities. Shanghai and Beijing both figure among the top ten cities on the site, buoyed by a large and active gay expatriate community.

On the whole though, we expect most of our growth in the early phase to be driven by North America and Europe. In China as in many other parts of Asia, people prefer to hang out online anonymously. It will take some time before more gay Asians are willing to “come out” on the Internet in an authentic social environment. And let’s not forget the linguistic diversity across Asia. Taking all these considerations in mind, we think we’re actually doing pretty well in Asia. Later this year, we’ll be making our site available first in all the major European languages and then in the Asian languages, and I believe this will bring about a significant boost in traffic to the site.

56minus1: Besides the Web site, what else has Gays.com been working on?

Kenneth Tan: Our latest project — and one which we’re really proud of — is the IDAHO Challenge. IDAHO stands for the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia, a day observed on May 17 every year, which happens to coincide with the anniversary of our launch. This being our very first birthday, we decided to do something really ambitious and the result was this joint undertaking between Gays.com and the Paris-based IDAHO Committee, which has been instrumental in the new UN statement to decriminalize homosexuality, now signed by 67 countries around the world. The Challenge is simple — we want LGBT people from all around the world to get in front of their video camera, and tell us their name, where they come from and how proud they are to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, like in the video you see below:


Take up the IDAHO Challenge from Gays.com on Vimeo.

56minus1: Tell us about the “digital gay” (or Gay 2.0) scene in China?

Kenneth Tan: Most people find it hard to believe when I tell them that China has a thriving online gay scene. There is a plethora of gay portals, online forums, mailing lists, chatrooms, QQ groups available today and it is through the Internet that I’ve witnessed firsthand how gay Chinese people are organizing themselves into sports clubs, language exchange groups, arts groups, and so on. Gay life has flourished all across China in just the last few years and this is no doubt all thanks to the Internet. The Web has facilitated the coming out of a whole new generation of young gay men and women, from the cities to the villages.

I happen to be acquainted with a few of these masterminds behind some of the bigger gay Chinese portals and I will tell you for one that these guys experience little to no harrassment from the powers that be. Most of them manage to fly under the radar by actively self-censoring their sites to make sure they are free of pornographic content.

Some important blogs to watch if you’re interested in following LGBT developments in China would be those of Li Yinhe (a sociologist, sexologist and activist who has submitted proposals to legalise gay marriage to the CPPCC three times), Cheng Qingsong (film critic and script writer), and QAF Beijing (soon QueerComrades.com), China’s first and longest running queer Webcast which will be introducing its third season soon.

56minus1: How is your men’s lingerie business doing?

Kenneth Tan: MANifesto continues to serve its customers online and through our two stores in Shanghai (located in Shanghai Studio) and Beijing (right next to the Forbidden City). We remain very proud of the fact today that we pretty much pioneered the category of designer men’s underwear and swimwear targeted at the gay and metrosexual crowd in China. Within a year of our launch, counterfeits of our designs started appearing all over Taobao and to be frank it’s been a pain in the you-know-where dealing with them, but that’s the risk that any entrepreneur has to take on when he or she decides to do business in China. My dream is still to some day be able to develop our own inhouse label but that looks like it will have to take a back seat for now due to my other commitments!

56minus1: Thanks Ken.

// AjS

chats | tyson meade ::

Friday, February 20th, 2009

Tyson Meade:: “my high school teacher is a rock legend…” Anyone remember the Chainsaw Kittens? They were one of the great pre-alternative bands of the early 90s; credited with starting the whole “alternative” genre (which was later made popular by Nirvana, of course) along with the Pixies, Sonic Youth, and, uh, Redd Kross.

In 2000, after Chainsaw Kittens last album All American, the band’s front man, Tyson Meade, suddenly vanished from the U.S. music scene, and rumor had it that he up and moved to China. Well, that rumor turned out to be true. Tyson moved to Shanghai and is still there / here now, enjoying life as a high school English teacher.

Listen below for excepts from an entertaining phone interview I conducted with Tyson about his life in Shanghai and, more importantly, the reason behind his decision to give up being a full-time rock musician. In the interview, Tyson also looks back on his music career and shares some amazing rock ‘n roll stories involving John Lydon (of the Sex Pistols and P.I.L) and Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins (who is close friends with Tyson and the Chainsaw Kittens as one of their albums was released on James Iha and D’arcy’s Scratchie label). Have a listen.

Also, if you are interested in Tyson’s adventures in Shanghai, check out his blog.  //

[ is a guest contributor on 56minus1.]

chats | sam flemming ::

Friday, February 6th, 2009

Sam Flemming (CEO, CIC):: Sam Flemming is the co-founder and CEO of CIC (blog), the first and leading Internet Word of Mouth (IWOM) research and consulting firm in China. His company is at the forefront of exploring Chinese digital culture and helping companies and brands understand how Chinese Internet Word of Mouth is impacting and can be used to inform marketing communications, customer relationships, and research and development.

56minus1: Why is IWOM relevant for companies / brands in China? We all know about the crisis side of things online in China, with nationalistic “fenqing,” etc., but what kind of opportunities does the world of Chinese IWOM present companies / brands in China?

Sam Flemming: Ultimately, we see IWOM as INTELLIGENCE that enables brands to understand and take part in the way IWOM is redefining the relationship between institutions (like brands) and consumers. This is the theme of our recently released white paper series, see part 4 here; I also wrote about this here. IWOM is an essential part (among many) of the marketing communications mix: it’s part of crisis / reputation monitoring, marketing effectiveness measurement, market research, marketing (i.e. online community marketing), competitive intelligence, and creative inspiration. IWOM is, in essence, reshaping each of these different marketing communications disciplines.

What are some of the biggest mistakes you and your team see companies / brands / agencies making online in China regarding IWOM (or digital marketing / PR / interactive work)? Why are they mistakes?

Sam Flemming: One big mistake is thinking they can control IWOM by posting fake messages or getting negative messages deleted (see great example here; the whole Sanlu Milk powder case is also worthy of mention). IWOM is made up of the hundreds of millions of voices of the Internet community and to assume that as a single institution the brand can control IWOM is a fantasy at best.

Without naming names or pointing fingers, tell us a little bit about the darker side of the Chinese Internet (i.e. astroturfing, portals’ manipulation of scandalous brand crises for page views, its overly commercial nature, sketchy forum administers working with astroturfers, privacy issues, etc.)

Sam Flemming: Here’s my quick take on some of the “hot button” issues:

  1. The biggest difference of IWOM in the West and in China is that Chinese IWOM is hosted on very commercial platforms like portals, whereas in the US, for example, blogs are not. When platforms are commercial, the incentives for the platforms to do most anything to drive page views, including courting controversy, is very strong.
  2. Astroturfing is relatively cheap due to lower labor costs in China and it offers a very tangible solution for agencies or managers to appear to “do” something “web 2.0″ even if it doesn’t have much effect (other than alienating and harming the community). You and I both shared thoughts on this here.
  3. Some forum administrators will work with astroturfing agencies to post messages for a fee, this is true; this actually points to the larger trend that IWOM platforms are commercial and need to generate revenue for the value that they provide (i.e. connecting brands to consumers). Charging brands to connect / participate “in the conversation” within a community that takes time / effort / money to build and maintain is not inherently wrong, especially when it can provide distinct value. Why shouldn’t Twitter charge brands for commercial accounts when companies like Dell have reportedly generated US$1 million in 1.5 years (in the West, not in China). However, such processes / policies should be transparent, and they most often not in China.
  4. Monitoring and removal of content is largely done by the commercial IWOM platforms themselves; it is in their best interest to not have content that is offensive or breaks any law.

56minus1: What are some of the smartest / most-effective campaigns you and your team see companies / brands / agencies executing online in China regarding IWOM (or digital marketing / PR / interactive)? Why are they smart / effective?

Sam Flemming: I outline our view of “IWOM centered marketing” here where I talk about how Johnson Baby has done great things with its Mom Ambassador program and how Intel used a simple but powerful approach to generate buzz within the Intel (aka “I-fan”) community.

56minus1: Can u share a few examples of CIC clients using CIC insights to inform their digital marketing / PR / interactive strategies or campaigns?

Sam Flemming: I can’t get into too many specifics, but our insights about sports communities regularly feed into the creative for Nike digital and media. We track campaign effectiveness of several other clients by tracking various elements of IWOM buzz (see here for example measurements) and combine these findings with other digital and market research agencies to put together comprehensive reports that provide a detailed understanding of campaign performance from all important angles. We also work with R&D departments to assist in their product development and with PR departments for reputation monitoring. You can see plenty of case studies of how brands use IWOM intelligence to help drive their communications in our recent “The Internet is THE Community” white papers, especially part one and part four.

56minus1: Who “gets” IWOM and the “digital imperative” best in China? PR firms, advertising agencies, interactive / digital agencies, etc.? Or, are they all hopeless? Who gets its the least (or is the most hopeless)? Why? What brands really get it?

Sam Flemming: Digital agencies seem to do better, in general, since they are more familiar with the overall digital environment. PR and advertising still view social media as a last minute add on. These are generalizations, and there are always exceptions. Of course the agencies and clients who get IWOM the best are the ones who work with companies like us.  ;-)

56minus1: What are three (or more if you have more) IWOM (or digital marketing / PR / interactive) trends in China to keep a look for in the near future?

Sam Flemming:

  1. SNS audiences prove finicky: SNS will continue to grow, but the key challenge will be for the SNS players to garner loyalty. Xiaonei was 2007 / 2008. Kaixin is 2008 / 2009. What’s next? I am not sure there is much loyalty with Chinese netizens.
  2. Development of vertical SNS: I predicted last year that vertical SNS like Babytree would become more popular. I still think this will happen as there are already so many BBS verticals with powerful communities (i.e. Xcar and HoopChina), that it seems like a no brainer for existing BBS communities to leverage SNS functions or new SNS verticals to develop within popular topic areas.
  3. Refinement of communications strategies based on different roles of blogs, BBS, and SNS: Blogs are driven by self expression (i.e. content driven by “me’”), BBS are driven by information / topics (i.e. content driven by “topics”), and SNS are driven by netizen relationships. Like any good conversationalist or community member, brands need to shape their communication approach based on understanding the motivations and purpose of each communication space. This was a topic that came out in our IWOM summit meetings with 17 of our clients late last year. I also wrote about it in detail here.

56minus1: What’s special or unique about Chinese netizens and local Internet culture? Interesting examples?

Sam Flemming: I would say the sheer force of the Internet as a primary and mainstream media which both influences and serves as a channel for consumers, especially in top tier cities, is unmatched by any other market, at least in the West (Korea could make some claims here). We continually document examples in our white papers (see especially our IWOM watch half year reviews like this one and special IWOM watch on the Sichuan earthquake here) and on our blogs www.seeisee.com/sam (English) and www.seeisee.com (Chinese). Another unique element is that, as I mentioned above, the hottest social media platforms are largely commercial which can lend to a different dynamic than the West (i.e. there may be a certain tendency to highlight controversy).

56minus1: Does CIC have plans to move from a research / consulting firm to an agency that executes digital / interactive campaigns? Considering CIC’s insight and understanding of the space in China, seems like a logical step. Why haven’t you done it already?

Sam Flemming: We believe it important to serve as 3rd party, credible, and objective partner in providing research and consulting to our clients. If we execute, then we lose that unique positioning. We don’t think the market needs more agencies; we think agencies need to better learn to appreciate how IWOM can inform their strategy and execution.

56minus1: Talk about your business. When did the company start? How have you grown over the years? Practices? Products? Offices, staff numbers, company culture, plans for the future, hiring, etc.

Sam Flemming: Founded in 2004, CIC has always focused exclusively on IWOM research and consulting. We have developed our own proprietary text mining technology for the unique Chinese social media landscape and have a dedicated team of analysts who understand IWOM, communications and vertical industries in China (esp. auto, mobile phone, consumer electronics, cosmetics, baby, sports, and beverage). I do think we have a unique company culture as an independent agency which is “out of the box” as part of its very DNA.

56minus1: Thanks Sam.

// AjS

chats | archie hamilton ::

Saturday, January 24th, 2009

archie hamilton:: listen below for a conversation between Archie Hamilton, head of Split Works, and Louis Yu, from the U of Victoria’s CFVU 101.9. Among other things, Split Works brings foreign bands (Sonic Youth, Jens Lekman, Go Team, Jose Gonzalez) to perform in China. Split Works is also involved in promoting / developing local Chinese independent musicians. In the interview, Archie discusses at length the music industry in China. Follow him on Twitter at , or Split Works at . See here for another in depth interview with Archie.

chats | tangos chan ::

Monday, January 19th, 2009

Tangos:: As founder and editor in chief of China Web2.0 Review, an award-winning English-language blog dedicated to tracking the latest developments in China’s Internet and mobile markets, Tangos Chan has long established himself as one of the most authoritative voices on China’s digital space. Tangos is also a VP at China Growth Capital and a lead organizer of the annual Chinese Blogger Conference. Follow Tangos on Twitter at , or for China Web2.0 Review feeds on Twitter, follow .

[note: this interview has been translated from Chinese]

56minus1: Now or in the future, where do you see local innovation coming from in the Chinese digital space?

Tangos Chan: Even though at the end of 2007 I gave a lecture on Chinese innovation in the digital space, I feel that if you take the whole Chinese digital space into consideration, it really lacking in innovation. Sure, there is “Chinese style innovation” and a culture of “shanzhai” (knock-off) innovation that adapts already developed stuff to better suit the China market, but in reality, this is just “copying” with only minor alteration. What little innovation there is occurs at the applied level, while at the most basic core technology level and in the application space there is practically none to be found. I feel this will be quite difficult to change in the short term, as China’s entire education environment / system and social situation really doesn’t do much to cultivate innovation.

56minus1: What are your biggest and boldest predictions for the Chinese Internet over the next 18 months? What can we expect?

Tangos Chan: Oh god, why does everyone always like to ask this question…I’m really not very good at making predictions. When I was in school, me and a friend used to bet on sports…I lost every time. One time though, a classmate noticed that I always seemed to lose, so when Saudi Arabia played Belgium in the World Cup, he gave me a chance by intentionally betting on Saudi Arabia to win. In the end, Saudi Arabia scored an incredible goal and won the match 1:0…I lost again…OK, next question…hahahaha. Alright, I will try my best to make some predictions for the next 18 months, here goes: 1) most of China’s Internet companies will turn into gaming companies…it doesn’t matter is it’s MMORPG or simple online / Web site / casual games, or games within social networking sites, etc.; 2) Google will steal considerable search market share from Baidu because Baidu is simply over-extended with its offering…the company’s product line is just all over the place; and 3) Besides Google, all other foreign companies, for the most part, will exit the China Internet market.

56minus1: BBS / online discussion forums are king in China, but why? Historical precedent? User preference for anonymity and multiple content creators, etc.? Or? Your thoughts?

Tangos Chan: In China, BBS is very important. One reason is because of historical president, yes. For example, China’s biggest portal Sina originated from a BBS. Besides historical reasons, I think BBS are extremely popular in China because everyone’s interest in and tolerance for China’s domestic mainstream media’s reporting is waning. People are looking for new sources and channels of information and news. Also, in China (online or off), it is very hard to find a place to freely share your voice or opinion with the general public, BBS provides this opportunity, and because of it’s anonymous nature, BBS also provides a certain built-in protection for this kind of self expression among users.

56minus1: Your vote for the BEST or “most 2.0″ Chinese Web site? Any sites to keep an eye on in the near future?

Tangos Chan: The Chinese “Web2.0″ site I use most is Douban. I have been a Douban user since it first came out…I was the 53rd registered user (my user ID is 53). Although the Douban of 2005 (when it first came out) is much different than the Douban of today, the site’s development has always been quite steady and consistent…recently they released a new function for musicians, I think this is an important step for Douban’s development because it has opened up the site to a whole new space. Besides Douban, I think Kaixin001 is worth paying attention to. The team behind the Kaixin001 has a really good understanding of their users’ needs and wants. They are doing a really good job in terms of productization too. There are other local Chinese sites with bright prospects, but to tell you the truth, I don’t really use them much myself.

56minus1: How does the Chinese Internet differs from the Anglo-centric / Western Internet?

Tangos Chan: I have never really thought about this question before. I think the one big difference between the Chinese Internet and other markets is copyright protection. In China, there isn’t very good protection over copyrights. There is a ton of content on the Chinese Internet that’s just copied / pasted, etc. without citation or link-backs. The value of content has yet to be realized and respected by the Chinese netizentry. On the other hand, in terms of user experience, since the popularization of computers / computing came at the same time as the popularization of the Internet, many Chinese people have never really experienced the “software age,” they went straight into the “Internet age,” so their understanding of how to use the Internet is only at a very basic / elementary level. As a result, it’s often the case that foreign users are much more proficient at the more complicated / sophisticated side of the Internet.

56minus1: Who do you think will win the video sharing site war in China? Or will they all survive?

Tangos Chan: Well, there is no doubt in my mind that they can’t all stick around…in the end, I don’t think more than two will survive. Looking back to the “portal war” in China, in reality, only Sina and Sohu have survived. If Netease wasn’t propped up by its gaming and service provider business, it would have exited the portal market a long time ago. The quantity of advertising in the China market isn’t sufficient to support more than two video sharing sites. In terms of who will actually survive, it’s really hard to say because there is just so much bad and fake information out there about these sites…who knows what is real…so, its hard to judge about these sites’ futures.

56minus1: Tells us about Chinese netizens? Are they unique? If so, why? Waht’s a typical profile of the average “Chinese netizen?”

Tangos Chan: If someone really wants to get an accurate understanding and description of Chinese netizens, I encourage you to read the latest CNNIC report or my English summaries here. In general, Chinese netizens are younger than 25, many are younger than 20, low incomes, accessing the Web from Web cafes, etc. They are online mostly for gaming, chatting on QQ, or downloading movies and music.

56minus1: What do you make of CNNIC’s statistics? Accurate or just “stabs in the dark”? How many people are REALLY using the Internet in China?

Tangos Chan: What do you think I am, God? How the hell am I supposed to know how many Internet users there are in China?! Considering that there really is no other accurate alternative to Internet numbers in China, I think there is great value in CNNIC’s figures as reference points. But actually, I am not really concerned with how many Internet users there are in China. It doesn’t matter if there are 2 hundred million or 1 hundred million, or whatever, these are just numbers anyway. What I care about is how people are using the Internet. Are they gaming? Are they playing on QQ? Are they downloading media? What are they doing? I’m far more interested in what users are doing and how they are doing it…that’s more interesting.

56minus1: What has the Internet done to change China over the past 10 years or so, and how do you see it shaping China’s future?

Tangos Chan: The biggest thing the Internet has done for China was to provide a space / channel for Chinese people to express their opinions. Also, the Internet has provided many more channels by which we can get information. Yes, it’s true the Internet is censored and suppressed to a certain extend, but, even so, it has provided us with many new opportunities as a society. As Bill Gates once said, “we always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten.” I cannot predict, but I do hope and believe that the Internet can make China a better society.

56minus1: Who will win the C2C war in China? Does Baidu’s “You A” have a chance against Taobao?

Tangos Chan: Baidu has invested a huge amount of resource in C2C, however, in the short term, Taobao will without a doubt dominate in terms of market share. In the long term though, Baidu and Tencent’s Paipai will slowly but surely nibble away at Taobao’s holdings, forming a three-way balance of power…of course, of the three, Taobao is the strongest.

56minus1: Who will with the SNS war in China? Why? Or…?

Tangos Chan: In the SNS space I think there will be a few that split up the market as leading players. I think Kaixin001, Xiaonei, and 51.com all have a chance for success…also, of course, you can’t forget about QQ.

56minus1: Is your site, China Web2.0 Review, the TechCrunch of China?

Tangos Chan: Techcrunch is a “for-profit” Web site, my China Web 2.0 Review is just a blog…it’s just my personal interest…so, there’s that fundamental difference between the two sites. Before I started writing the CWR blog, I was certainly influenced and inspired by TechCrunch, but my blog is “export oriented” as it’s written for foreigners that want to better understand the China Internet market, so, my objective is also a bit different than TechCruch’s. However, many people have introduced me / my site as “the TechCrunch of China,” a title I am happy to take on.  :-)

56minus1: Besides CWR, what to you do for a living?

Tangos Chan: Blogging on CWR is only my part-time job in the evening. My full time job is at China Growth Capital, which is a startup consulting, investing, and incubation company based in Beijing that focuses on early and expansion stage opportunities. So, at China Growth Capital, I work very closely with other startups and entrepreneurs in terms of business strategy, marketing, development, etc.

56minus1: Tell us more about China Web2.0 Review. When did u start it? Why? Why is it in English? Any ambitions for the site to become something other than what it is now?

Tangos Chan: The first post on China Web 2.0 Review was published on October 28, 2005. At that time, I had quite a few friends writing “bridge blogs,” on one hand they were translating good foreign language posts / articles into Chinese, on the other hand, they were trying their hands at writing posts in English to help those outside China gain a better understanding of things here. We all thought that the outside world’s understanding of China shouldn’t only come from mainstream media, whether it was CNN or The China Daily, there needed to be more channels in order to establish true communication and understanding. 2005 was a year in which the outside world really started paying attention to the Chinese digital space…so, in line with foreign interest, I started an English-language blog to introduce developments in the Chinese tech, Internet, and wireless, etc. spaces, and give some attention to some startups that weren’t getting covered in mainstream media.

Regarding the future of CWR, I have a lot of ideas. For example, for a long time now, I have wanted to set up a wiki database for Chinese startups, kinda like Crunchbase, but I actually had this idea before Crunchbase…anyway, I just never got around to it executing on it…not enough energy or time…haha. I am hoping to get some more bilingual people involved in the site to help write some of the content. From 2006 – 2007 we had Luyi Chen contributing content, a number of excellent pieces in fact.

56minus1: Tell us a bit about this years CNbloggerCon? How were you involved?

Tangos Chan: Cnbloggercon is a very grassroots annual meetup for Chinese bloggers; I’m a member of the main organizing committee. This past year was my first time to be a lead organizer, and I was crazy busy with so many things to prepare, etc. But it turned out to be a really good event even though there were still some shortcomings. The blogger conference, content-wise, is very diversified, you cannot find another conference in China that covers so many important topics. I really like this diversity, it creates opportunities to refresh your mind, and to learn a bit about what’s happening in other fields.

56minus1: Your thoughts on the iPhone in China? Thoughts on Apple in general in China?

Tangos Chan: I think the iPhone will sooner or later properly enter the China market. However, in the short term, I don’t think the China market is going to be all Apple has chalked it up to be for the iPhone, in terms of size / sales.

Apple is great, if it can bring its price points down a bit in the mainland, perhaps in line with Hong Kong’s, I’m sure they was have great sales success in China.

56minus1: Your thoughts on Microsoft’s recent anti-piracy efforts in China with the dark screen “black out” initiative?

Tangos Chan: Well, this incident quite clearly shows yet another Microsoft PR blunder in China. What Microsoft is trying to do is of course not wrong, but when they carry out such initiatives they always put themselves in a bad position, just asking for people to criticize and bash them.

56minus1: Thanks Tangos.

// AjS

shorts | interview w/ shi feng ::

Sunday, January 11th, 2009

:: this video is the seventh in a Danwei.org series of short interviews conducted at this year’s Chinese blogger conference (cnbloggercon 2008, Guangzhou, November 15 & 16th).

In this interview, Shi Feng (石峰), a drop out from one of China’s most prestigious universities turned blogger, talks about the growing rift between education and social needs / society in China, and calls for everyone to participate in a transformation of China’s education system.

This video is also available on Tudou for faster loading in China.

To see other interviews from this series, link here.

Filming, editing, and interviewing: Adam J. Schokora
Subtitles: Alice Liu
Music: B6

chats | aric s. queen ::

Friday, December 26th, 2008

Aric S. Queen:: listen below for a recent interview with Aric S. Queen (of , Chinesepod.com, CurrentTV’s “Shanghai Diaries” fame, ) on the University of Victoria’s CFVU 101.9 (host, Louis Yu). Aric shares some thoughts on indie music in China, traveling Southeast Asia, his new book deal, and good (and bad) times in Shanghai before an apparent “deportation.” You can follow Aric on Twitter at .

chats | david feng ::

Thursday, December 4th, 2008

David Feng speaking @ CNBloggerCon (foto by Elliot Ng):: David Feng is one of those rare individuals that simply defies the bounds of a proper “introduction paragraph”…in short, he’s extraordinary. Odd and savant-like at times, sane and illuminating at others…among many (MANY) other things, he’s one of China’s leading übergeeks and 2.0 overachievers.

56minus1: Tell us more about David Feng. Ready, set…go!

David Feng: My official bio mentions that I’m some kind of World Citizen that’s been to 17 countries and speaks 10 languages, and those on Twitter know me as a total Mac and subway freak. However, that’s just part of the story. There are actually three “things” that I sink my teeth into deep, and those are Macs (and tech in general), media, and — get this — “other things.”

My tech involvements used to be Mac-only, but they’ve now expanded into more 2.0 stuff. Apart from my uninterrupted Tweeting, I manage techblog86, an English-language blog about China’s tech, mobile and start-up worlds, and keep tabs on the Mac world as a co-founder and current leader of the BeiMac user group — a group that started out as Beijing’s Mac community. It’s a unique group. It’s not just a Mac community group, it’s far more…it’s a bridge linking Macintosh China (as I call it) to the rest of the planet. We’re here to make China a “Mac nation,” much like the U.S. and Japan.

You can find me on , , and even Dopplr.

Like I said, I’m also actively involved in the media…to that end, I host my own shows (and have even produced a few video podcasts some years ago). You can catch me on Radio Beijing every Saturday evening, talking about exotic trips and interesting things around the planet. I’ve also hosted many language contests and have given quite a number of speeches to all sorts of audiences, and am in on the media biz online, covering Macs and technology since 2002, with over 3,000 articles in both English and Chinese to my credit.

In terms of “other” projects, I have this City 2.0 site called Beijingology, which is a city encyclopedia — or at that — a wiki for the city of Beijing. This project alone has been in the works for nearly 500 days…here it is: a city wiki with nearly 1,500 articles that delves into just about every aspect of Beijing. I did this because I’ve been snapping away, something like, over 40,000 photos since 2002, and I wanted somewhere to “dump” all this Beijing data. (I tried the Wikipedia; it’s GFDL license was odd; all my Beijing freeway articles have ended up on official Beijing government Web sites, without the least bit of credit!)

But that’s still just part of me. I also co-blog with City Weekend in Beijing, as well as with the folks at CN Reviews, where I turn out insightful reviews on the Chinese blogosphere / 2.0 space, etc.

I’m thinking of starting a start-up…it’ll either be Beijing-ish or tech-ish focused.

I’m also authoring a Beijing subway guide book at the moment.

I went to international school in Switzerland, starting out in grade 1, and was fluent in about 5 languages by the age 16…I’ve managed to add 5 more languages since then. University studies continued after I returned to China, where I got myself a bachelor’s degree in economics from the University of International Business and Economics, and a master’s degree in art from the Communication University of China. I feel terribly old saying this, but I’m already thinking about my doctorate…

56minus1: Where and how did you pick up such a posh British accent?

David Feng: I fell ill in late 1999 and watched an excessive amount of BBC WORLD when I was recovering…the flu went away, but the accent stuck.

56minus1: Your thoughts on Microsoft’s recent anti-piracy / dark screen “black out” initiative in China?

Bad move.

56minus1: As many — I’m sure — are baffled by it, could you please explain your obsessive-compulsive Twitter behavior? What motivates you to such annoying excess?

David Feng: I view Twitter as a combo tool with the power to disseminate everything you’re thinking about — of course, in 140 characters or less. I think of it as a mix of a doodle book, an open mic, a notepad, an IM service, and a propaganda agency.

The doodle book analogy has some history. In 5th grade, we had doodle books, so when our teacher read us a story we could doodle whatever we wanted to…I remembered creating prototypes of super-complex freeway overpasses while listening to haunted witch stories…but, I digress. [56minus1: huh?]

I Tweet about everything. To date, there have been a few classics. For example, after this guy finished a meal at the Terminal 3 Yoshinoya in the Beijing Airport, he dumped the whole thing into the trash bin — including the porcelain bowl! I Tweeted that.

Another classic…once my IKEA laptop bag had a bad zipper and caught the clothes of a passenger on a Line 1 Beijing subway train. I got off at Xidan, but not without dragging her off the train as well! IKEA was instantly given a hate tweet (two actually) in ALL CAPS.

During the China 2.0 tour and the Chinese Blogger Conference, I tweeted minute by minute notes on just about every event, meeting, presentations, etc.

I don’t Tweet to “out Tweet” people, and I don’t Tweet “just about anything” or “Tweet just for the hell of it.” I do @replies, and as of late, they’ve taken a huge share of my Tweets. I also favorite Tweets en masse — I am now hovering around my 2,000th fav’d Tweet.

I mimic Beijing subway announcements with my Tweets before I sleep and after I wake up…I feel there’s got to be something else to Tweet rather than “good night” or “good morning”…

DF Apple USA56minus1: You’re a hardcore Mac fan, tell us about your love affair with all-things-Mac.

David Feng: Back in 1989, I first set my hands on a computer. I was condemned to creating DOS batch files (after I failed to create a working executive file / application) on some astronomy project. The thing would roll across the screen, make out-of-this-world beeps at exactly all the wrong times, and play Mary Had A Little Lamb when you least expected it. To advance from one screen to the next, you had to push a different button each time. It was total hell.

(If I wasn’t doing that kinda stuff, I was happily speeding away on Test Drive: The Duel, crashing or overtaking anything that got in my way. Car, trees, canyons, you name it!)

My first-ever encounter with a Mac was in 1991. Back in the day, these things were a far cry from the state-of-the-art machines they are now; we “made do” (very well, in fact) with black-and-white screens, 9-point pixelated text, and the ability to run only one application at a time. I fell in love with this computing environment.

I started begging my parents for a portable Mac and taking laptops from the school’s computer lab. I eventually got my first Mac in 1993. My teacher at the time, Mr. D’Arcy, understood my enthusiasm for Mac…when Mr. D’Arcy’s classes started involving HyperCard — a Hyperlink-based WYSIWYG application that you can program in — it was absolutely heaven on earth. I started creating “click-ready” tutorials for new Mac people. In 1997, I came out with my masterpiece: a simulation travel guide application that could show users which trip they wanted to take, and print out reservation forms.

I’ve used the Mac Classic, the Mac II, the Mac LC, the Quadras, Performas, and even a Centris from Matthias, a classmate from my primary school days. Then, of course, came the Power Macs, the PowerBooks, and all that kind of stuff. The MacBook I use now is my 12-Bth Mac (that’s because I don’t do the number 13 — it’s Mac 11, Mac 12-A, Mac 12-B, Mac 14 for me).

56minus1: If you could advise Steve Jobs on Apple’s China strategy (maybe you already are), what would you tell him?

David Feng: Don’t sell stuff here at USA prices. This is the PRC. China is not the 51st state of the U.S.A.

Localize. Don’t assume that U.S. market stuff will work in the PRC. China is not the 51st state of the U.S.A.

Make an attempt to understand the whole situation — the whole country, the whole people. Sink your teeth into China and make it a long-term effort rather than just establishing a “face project” presence in here or grabbing people’s money and running back to 1 Infinite Loop with the loot. China is not the 51st state of the U.S.A.

56minus1: Is it true you use 3 mobile phones simultaneously (2 of those being iPhones)?

David Feng: I do — and I’m thinking of replacing my badly beaten-up Nokia E62 with another iPhone, making 3. Currently, my Nokia (aka, Number One) is mostly just for Tweeting, checking email, etc….it also acts as a Bluetooth GPRS modem.

Number Two’s only reason for existence is because it does standard traditional Chinese characters. The authorities have a 2001 law to, in essence, force everyone in China to use simplified Chinese characters, but I’m against eliminating traditional characters…I see it as eliminating the true culture of Chinese characters, and at that, Chinese culture in general. I send out traditional-character Tweets by composing them on Number Two and then texting them over to Number One, where they get published via my Twitter SMS number.

Number Three has a new mission — to take photos. At about 5 million megapixels, this is one of the best camera phones ever. I also use Number Three for ringing up and texting friends, but it’s photo capabilities are pretty much unparalleled.

My iPod touch doesn’t count as “Number Four,” but it’s the only mobile WiFi device I have on me all of the time. It does mobile Tweets via Hahlo now, and it also does mobile Facebook pretty well.

56minus1: What are your biggest and boldest predictions / thoughts on trends for the Chinese Internet over the next 18 months? What can we expect?

I’m hoping that, in the foreseeable future, China roles out something big…something on a global scale. Way too often, the Web 2.0 “bigs” are US-based. The Web is a worldwide thing. (Sorry, David Pogue. It’s no longer just a US-Western European-Japanese thing.)

We’re talking about “bigs” with worldwide reach and international recognition like Twitter, Facebook, and TechCrunch. China does have variants or (if you must) “copies” of stuff like Facebook, but too often, the user base is Chinese-only.

Someone needs to start something in the People’s Republic and make waves — both at home and abroad. And they need to do this a la 2.0.

The Chinese Internet will continue to remain rather unstable as long as we have a bunch of nervous people punching policy buttons with their hands a la Parkinson’s Disease 2.0. Encourage free development and growth, dump irrelevant limits, though, and you’ll just have smacked your thumb on the lift off button for PRC 2.0. [56minus1: A la, uh...what?]

56minus1: You recently attended (and spoke) at the annual Chinese Blogger Conference (CNBloggerCon), your impressions on this year’s event? Best presentation / session? Most interesting person you met there?

This year’s event showed the grassroots nature of the Chinese blogosphere at its very best. Far away from any five-star hotels or deluxe conference centers, we held the event at something that I can only describe as Guangzhou’s version of Beijing’s 798.

The best sessions came from a number of people. David Feng (the other David Feng, on Twitter) launched into tech details that I could actually make sense of. Goldred from Taiwan did easily the most impressive, and close-to-the-audience presentation of day 1. Day 2 belonged to Shel Israel ( on Twitter).

The most interesting person I met there was none other than the Scobleizer (Robert Scoble, on Twitter). I had been tracking this guy since late 2007. It was refreshing and a real pleasure to meet the real Scobleizer in real life. Robert was true to his Tweets — little difference between the Scobleizer on the Web and the real guy.

56minus1: Tell us about your presentation at CNBloggerCon?

David Feng: The inspiration behind my presentation is rooted in the events of, about, April 2008, when “stuff happened” in China…Tibet. Olympic torch relay protests. Global media distortion. Not good. Beijing 2008 was being compared to Berlin 1936. Stuff like the Dali Lama, Tibet, and all that stuff became all the rage.

I have a Swiss passport and stand up for Western values such as constitutional rule of law, democracy, freedom of speech, equality, etc. But, when the Chinese nation is in trouble or being unfairly attacked, it didn’t matter that I no longer had a PRC passport, I took it to heart — it’s my China.

I couldn’t have agreed more with the fact that China was “in the pits” and needed help getting itself out…so, I dispelled some of those myths about China with my presentation. Yet, I also wanted to side with those who wanted more freedom — the harmonization, it seems, is way too much. I had two views — a Chinese one and a Western one. I wanted to be a bridge who understand sentiment from both sides. I wanted to make both sides talk. Most importantly, I wanted to show that the Chinese could be more “international” — as in, world-oriented and aware of stuff happening in foreign lands.

With all that in mind, I came up with the idea of an “international Chinese” for my presentation, and did my bit on CN Reviews too.

56minus1: Who will win the SNS war in China? The C2C war? The microblogging war? The video sharing site war?

David Feng: Xiaonei will probably clinch victory in the SNS war. I know that Twitter has massive momentum to make it big in China, but microblogs aren’t that popular here…there could also be local victories too, as one deciding factor could be that local microblogs have local text message numbers. The video sharing site war will yield two winners: Tudou for harmonized content and YouTube for un-harmonized content. I’ve been to both Tudou and Youku offices, what I saw at Tudou gives it the upper edge.

56minus1: Who wins your “Best or most ‘Web 2.0′ Web site” award in China? Why?

David Feng: Sorry — don’t seem to have any that stand out real well…

56minus1: When do you see Internet censorship no longer being an issue in China? How can China get there?

David Feng: Harmonization and censorship will be around, I think, until there’s a big “reshuffling” at Zhongnanhai or with the Censorship Gods. Those folks want to keep the People’s Republic stable by all means, and the effort they put into doing so defies explanation.

China will be un-harmonized, eventually, but not for another 10 to 20 more years, I guess. Social improvements and better education will be key. But then again, miracles can happen. The Berlin Wall fell just months after the (former) East German press boasted that it would stand for another hundred years.

Anything is possible in the People’s Republic.

We’re already seeing some efforts being made. We can use Wikipedia.com these days. Then again, we might get Wikipedia harmonized after you publish this interview…!

56minus1: You are an “expert” on the Beijing subway system…how did your fascination with the local underground come about?

I went underground because I was trapped in mass jams during rush hour in Beijing. To me, the subway is one of those “GUARANTEED jam-free” ways to get around. Once I’m shown something good, I can never get enough of it…I’ll always come back looking for more. So, when I heard about Line 5 opening up late last year, that was it….and then, when in 2006, they expanded Super Pass usage to all lines, that (also) was it. 2007 brought Line 5 into the system, and 2008 added three more lines…wow.

I won’t say I know everything, but I have an idea of how Beijing will look with 19+ lines in the year 2015. I have an idea of where all the stops will be on future subway lines (except for the link to the Fragrant Hills). I also know quite a bit about the history of the subway system, and even (maybe just a bit) about those hidden stations in the northwest on Line 1.

The craziest thing about the Beijing subway system is — of course — the announcement system. THe Line 13 and Batong Line announcements (when trains arrive) sound like the announcer is about to doze off over the microphone…the newer English announcements have a pitiful laowai (non-Chinese) announcer making magnificent botch-ups with the pronunciation of station names…I also can’t stand those non-automated announcements — that “Jing Er Hua Yin” (Beijing accented Mandarin)…cringe.

I’m keeping an eye on where this thing’s next sprawl will be. And when Line 4 opens next year, I’ll be there…

56minus1: Thanks David.

// AjS

chats | gang lu ::

Monday, December 1st, 2008

GongLu:: Gang Lu [Universe, , , ] has a BSc, MSc, and PhD in wireless communications and is the co-founder of OpenWebAsia Workgroup, the first independent workgroup focusing on the Asian Internet / digital industry. Lu also organizes the OpenWebAsia conference, an annual pan-Asia Web technology event that brings together executives, entrepreneurs, and venture capitalists from all corners of Asia. He is also a recognized tech blogger as the guest editor of the ReadWriteWeb.com, and the founder and main author of Mobinode.com, voted the best China Tech Blog in 2007. With his academic background in wireless communications, and years of R&D and business management experience in the mobile and Web industries, Gang Lu is a well-established and authoritative voice on the digital space in Asia, particularly China.

56minus1: Who will win the SNS war in China? The C2C war? The microblogging war? The video sharing site war?

Gang Lu: There will be more than one winner in the SNS war. Think about it, QQ, 51, Xiaonei, Kaixin001, etc., none of these big players are going to go down easily. In the C2C war, Taobao will dominate the market for a long while to come, but it now has some competition with companies like Tencent’s Paipai. Microblogging? I don’t know if there is or ever will be a war among microblogging services in China. I would be surprised if microblogging ever became truly popular in China. I’m more interested to see how these companies will compete with each other in the mobile market in the future, because I believe Web 2.0 has to go mobile to be truly become part of people’s everyday lives.

56minus1: When do you see Internet censorship no longer being an issue in China? How can China get there?

Gang Lu: Internet censorship will be around for a long time to come in China. The question I ask is whether or not censorship is really even a big deal in China…is it? To be honest, I’m uninterested in the “China Internet censorship” topic…it’s so boring. It reminds me of the LeWeb3 conference in 2006…there was a panel called “The Dragon’s Web” which was supposed to discuss the tech trends from the Chinese Web, but the first question the moderator asked is “what do you think of Internet censorship in China.” It was very disappointing. Censorship is of course not a good thing, but in my opinion, if China got rid of the GFW (the Great Firewall” tomorrow, “The Dragon’s Web” will be in a mess!

56minus1: What a terrible name for a panel…

Gang Lu: *sigh*

56minus1: What are some of the most innovative and worthwhile Web 2.0 / Internet start-ups to keep an eye in China over the next 18 months. Across Asia?

Gang Lu: Kaixin001 (开心网) has come out of nowhere…nobody expected it’s growth. I’m not sure what the “most innovative” start-up is…being innovative doesn’t mean a start-up will be a superstar in China…innovative start-ups in the Chinese Internet often just “fade away” because they lack a revenue model or don’t meet the needs of Chinese netizens, who are typically very young and fickle users. Nevertheless, I’m very optimistic about the market. More and more people are standing out and trying their own ideas…even foreigners are setting up start-ups in China, bringing great ideas and passion to the local space. Regarding start-ups across Asia…I certainly hope there will be some in next 18 months, but I haven’t seen any noteworthy examples recently. For cross-Asia / cross market, as I keep telling people, language is the biggest barrier, but there is no reason we shouldn’t try.

56minus1: Tell us about your blog, Mobinode.com.

Gang Lu: I started Mobinode.com in late 2006. Global markets know so little about the Chinese Internet space…censorship seems to be the only thing people around the world know about the Web in China. I was trying to bring TechCrunch into China, but that didn’t work out, so I decided to do it on my own with Mobinode. Mobinode reports on and analyzes the China Web / mobile industries, and occasionally covers tech news from other markets in Asia. With help from a few guest editors, we’re hoping to build the #1 independent tech blog in Asia.

56minus1: As you’ve lived abroad and Mobinode.com occasionally covers other Asian markets, can you comment on how Chinese Internet culture differs from digital culture in the West and elsewhere in Asia (Japan / Korea, etc.), or other (developed) markets?

Gang Lu: Chinese netizens are very young and the Internet in this market is still not exactly mature yet. The Chinese Internet is very “entertainment-centric,” this is why is the hottest Web services right now in China are video, gaming, and social networking. A lot of people talk about “attention” mattering most for mature and modern “digital lifestyles / culture” to develop, but in China, A.D.D. and entertainment are king. Korea’s online games rule the world and Japan’s mobile industry is far ahead of us (China). Indian and Israeli entrepreneurs are playing very active roles in the global industry, and countries like Vietnam will be the next battle ground for Asian Internet giants as they expand their empires.

56minus1: You recently attended / spoke at the annual China Blogger Conference (official site, blog, Flickr, ), your impressions on this year’s event? Best presentation / session? Most interesting person you met there?

Gang Lu: To be honest, I spent most of time talking to friends…I didn’t listen to many of the presentations. Fortunately, the entire conference was we recorded by 163.net…I will definitely watch it when I have time. The greatest thing about CNBloggerCon is that it brings speakers from difference industries sharing their views on the world and the Internet  / social media from different angles.

56minus1: Your presentation at CNBloggerCon?

Gang Lu: The topic of my presentation at CNBloggerCon was “Building Open Web Asia.” I co-founded the OpenWeb.Asia Workgroup in June 2008. The mission of this workgroup is to build a platform where the Western Web industry can efficiently communicate with the Asian / Eastern Web industry, and also encourage local Asian markets to learn from each other. The presentation quickly gave an overview of the Web industry in each Asian country / region, and talked about our plan to drive OpenWebAsia forward.

56minus1: The top 5 local Chinese bloggers you regularly read? Why?

Gang Lu: I read many blogs…its too hard to pick a top five. I frequently find myself landing on the China Blogger Network page.

56minus1: Where are you seeing local Chinese innovation in the digital space in China, or ingenuity among local Chinese tech entrepreneurs? Where can we expect to see more Chinese digital innovation in the future?

Gang Lu: Being asked about Chinese innovation in the digital space is always a difficult question. One good example of Chinese digital innovation is Comenz’s Discuz! BBS system and sites like Dianping.com, the local restaurant search, rating, forum site…it’s Web 2.0 at its best. Tencent’s IM-centric business is very unique and simply unbeatable. Online gaming is another example, people normally don’t pay for online services, but online goods, such as virtual decorations, virtual weapons, etc. are exceptions in China.

56minus1: What has the Internet done to change China over the past 10 years or so, and how do you see it shaping China’s future?

Gang Lu: The Internet has changed every part of China, in just about every way…no need to say anything more about that. Think about it, 10 years ago, most Chinese people didn’t even know the Internet existed, but now, China has become the #1 Internet market in the world. “Made in China” is of course everywhere, but we still haven’t seen any “Made in China” Internet companies truly rock the world. That’s something I want to see in the near future. I hope “Created in China” can start from the Chinese Web and mobile industries.

56minus1: Thanks Gang Lu.

// AjS

chats | zafka zhang ::

Saturday, November 15th, 2008

Zafta 1:: Zafka Zhang (张安定) is the co-founder of China Youthology, a boutique consultancy that works on consumer insights for marketing, communications, and product design targeting Chinese youth. He is also the head of research at HiPiHi (a leading Chinese virtual world platform), a lead adviser for the Association of Virtual Worlds (global industry association), a project member with Creative Commons in China, and a bona fide expert on Chinese subcultures, music, art, and digital marketing.

56minus1: Sean Leow, CEO of Neocha.com, once told me you are the most knowledgeable person on virtual worlds. Can you give us a brief overview of the virtual world space in China?

Zafka Zhang: In the past 2 years, I have heard a lot of discussion about virtual worlds (VWs) with many different definitions. My basic definition of a VW is an integrated, persistently existing world with avatars, virtual environments, and social-economic system. MMORPGs (massively multiplayer online role-playing game) is a classic type of VWs. Second life is a non-gaming virtual world.

Many current virtual rooms / scenes / spaces, which provide convenient, small-scale, visualized environment for chatting and social purposes are NOT VWs. For example, Google Lively and Vivaty. They are just the augmentation of the existing web services but not integrated and immersive “world.”

Technically, there are 2D VWs and 3D VWs. 2D virtual worlds, especially those for kids, tweens and teens, have gained the success globally because of lower technical and user entry barriers and clear business model. In China 2D virtual worlds are still in ‘infancy’ stage. According to my knowledge, they are 51mole (摩尔庄园)Club FishStardoll (明星派)Bobou City (抱抱城)Nami (娜娜米米)1DGreat Dreams (宏梦星球), etc. I visit 51mole most often. I have noticed some impressive progress of 51mole both in platform performance and community development.

There are 3 types of 3D VWs. The first is VW platforms. The core competency of this type of VW is online creation and the capability to run different types of applications. Worldwide speaking, there are Second Life,OpenSim and some other open source platforms. HiPiHi (China) is the earliest of this type in China and is still in the process of technology development. The biggest challenge for this type of VW is technology and user entry barrier.

The second is virtual community, such as There.com. There is not much user creativity involved in this type of VW. Users come to this type of VW for entertainment and social networking. MTV has already built 7 virtual communities. In China, there are ChinaQ and Dream World who both use the OpenSim platform, anduWorldNovokingM WorldHapa World who have developed their own platforms. Currently, these VWs are still under development. I think the giants in traditional media (eg. Warner Bro) and consumer goods companies (eg. Barbie Girl), with their resource to create compelling content and provide high quality services / virtual products, will dominate this area in the future.

The third type is communitilized online gaming worlds. Traditional online gaming is reinventing itself with openness and adding Web 2.0 features. In 2008, Giant9You and several other gaming companies focused their attention and resources on the “communitilization” of online gaming worlds. With more than 30 millions users, well-established content, virtual social-economic rules, and clear business models, in the next 3-5 years, communitilized online gaming worlds will the biggest competitor to the non-gaming virtual worlds.

I’m keen to look at two main aspects of VWs in the future:

Firstly, (non-technically) no matter 2D or 3D, biggest challenges lie in 1) how to deal with user privacy, user data, and user assets, and 2) how to develop and maintain the community on the basis of a good understanding of the local context.

Secondly, (technically) I am watching the mobile-based VWs and the augmentation of VWs. Of course, the interoperability and openness of Opensource and Second Life are still my concerns.

zafka56minus1: What has the Internet done to change / empower youth culture in China over the past 5 – 10 years or so, and how do u see it shaping youth culture going forward?

Zafka Zhang: This is a very important question to ask, however, its difficult to answer without writing a thesis. A lot of the work that we do at China Youthology is to understand the role of Internet in Chinese youth’s lives. In most of cases, others simply chalk up the Internet in China as just a “channel” that’s increasingly influencing local youth. However, in our opinion, the Internet is much more than a just channel – it’s part of their lifestyle and it is shifting the way youth perceive themselves, each other and the world. The use of the Internet in branding and marketing has been largely confined or restricted because of people inability to see the Internet as something more than just a channel. Its much bigger than that in China.

The research we do incorporates cyberspace ethnography. We not only research social networking sites, discussion forums (BBS), online games, etc. but we also use these online platforms in our daily life to connect with youth. We have started to share some of our findings in our blog. For example, brand experience on SNS. More will be shared on the blog in the future.

56minus1: Tell us more about your new company China Youthology.

Zafka Zhang: My wife Lisa Li has been working in the market research industry for 5+ years, but only until last year did I start to really understand her work and realize that she has been at the cutting edge of her industry, especially when she was invited to speak about her research at ESOMAR, the “Oscars” of the market research industry). As I have a similar educational background in sociology and politics, we have found our discourse on research methodologies and markey insight very enjoyable.

Moreover, my experience with Internet ventures and entrepreneurial firms (start-ups) has proven as valuable inspiration to her on various pieces of her research. Based on my past professional experiences, I think better research and consultancy can be conducted without handicaps of big organizations. Hence, we started our own company, China Youthology (青年志). Our research and insights are all about local Chinese youth, with the simple mission of helping companies / brands connect with local Chinese youth.

Over the past 2 years, digital marketing has dveloped into a huge interest of mine. Since we started China Youthology, I have found it very exciting to finally have the chance to implement various ways of digital marketing. We have shared some of our thoughts on this on our blog, which, by the way, has been very helpful in terms of connecting us to people from all over the world who have similar interests as ours, introducing a new company to the industry, and establishing thought-leadership. We have been surprised time and time again by well-established and respectful youth research and marketing agencies taking time to leave comments or write us emails. We use Twitter (, , and ) Facebook, Linkedin ( and ) etc as well…

56minus1: In August, New Weekly (新周刊) published an interesting piece titled 穷忙族 (loose translation: The Young / Working Poor Class) about Chinese youth life / working styles, consumption habits, “meaning of life” quest, ambitions, etc. What’s China Youthology’s point of view on this piece?

Zafka Zhang: We found that the “young working poor” has a unique connotation in Chinese context. And as a prevalent phenomenon, it is reshaping the consumption attitudes and behaviors of Chinese youth and hence has implication to brands. We actually talked about this on our blog. Check it out here.

56minus1: Your thoughts on innovation and the creative industry in China?

Zafka Zhang: The growth of creative industry and innovation in China is a result of Chinese economic transformation. We have talked more about it here. On one hand, the number of local “creative youth” is increasing dramatically; on the other hand, the youth today are a generation of creativity-seekers. The success of creativity flee-markets (such as iMart; see our report on it here) and various forms of festivals (see our report about Modern Sky Festival) shows great potential for China’s creative and cultural market.

Since the opening of China in late 70’s, trends have been trickling down to China from Western and Japanese trendsetters. However, in the last couple of years, with a growing sense of cultural identity, Chinese youth have established a good connection with local Chinese creativity. The mash up of foreign and local styles will continue to be the trend for Chinese youth. Recognizing the value of Chinese creative youth, we are working with Neocha.com on a project to help brands better understand emerging trends among local creative youth.

56minus1: Tell us about the types of projects / issues you are focusing on in China with your role at Creative Commons (CC).

Zafka Zhang: CC is a non-profit organization founded in 2001 in the US that provides free tools, both legal and technical, to help authors, scientists, artists, and educators easily mark their creative work with the freedoms they want it to carry. CC, with a statement of “Some Rights Reserved,” advocates and encourages legal sharing, remixing, and re-usage of creative works. There are already 49 jurisdictions with local versions of the CC license. Now, the CC licenses have become pervasive standards with large-scale adoption for user-generated content licenses.

I got to know CC and the free culture movement when I did research on the history of Second Life in 2007. I was intrigued by the business innovation of SL based on the protection of the IP rights of user-generated content. In the same year, I got to know Professor Wang Chunyan, the head of CC in China. We got to know each other better when CC cooperated with the mini-midi2008 festival to release my CC-licensed album Noise is Free this May (2008). The album is downloadable here. At the festival, my side project band “The Wedding Beast” also performed.

I recently joined CC and am now the local Chinese music community liaison and am responsible for public relations.  My job is to evangelize CC in among the local music community and let more people know the philosophy of CC through the social media. As we all know, copyright, when it was born, was developed to benefit both content creators and content consumers. With the revolution of the Internet, the mechanism of creation and distribution of content has dramatically changed; a lot of digital content is produced by so-called amateurs, and the culture of sharing, remixing, and reusing has become mainstream. CC is a Web 2.0 tool and a legal infrastructure to support the “sharing economy.”

Although I am not an expert in law and copyright, I am a believer in free culture and the power of the Internet. CC is one of the initiatives exploring new ways of balancing innovation and protection in the digital era. I would like to talk with more people who are interested in the topic of Internet, free culture, and business innovation. ALl are welcome to contact me at anding.zhang AT gmail DOT com.

zafka in show56minus1: You are a sound artist and an experimental musician, what is your favorite sound? Why? Any links to your work?

Zafka Zhang: My previous released sound-art works are focused on political listening of urban soundscapes. Please check my bio here. In 2008, I released two albums under Yao Dajun’s label POST CONCRETE PRiCELESS SERiES. Yong◎He is based on field recordings around Yong He Lama Temple area (in Beijing). I.Mirror is based o online virtual world field recordings from Second Life. I have put my thoughts in the inner pages of the albums.

I have favorite style of music but I don’t have favorite sound. I love and respect all kinds of sound. I spend my time in field recording while doing improvisations with instruments (including synthesizers and the iPhone) on stage. I go to WaterLand Kwanyin, a bi-weekly event at 2 Kolegas (in Beijing) quite often to either perform or meet friends. Hope to meet you guys there some day.

56minus1: Tell us more about your band Prague?

Zafka Zhang: We started in 1998 as “Surging Prague” when we were all Fudan students, and changed it to “Prague” in 2002 when my wife joined the band. At that time, our style was mostly post-punk and a lot of avant-garde stuff, then we gradually shifted to instrumental and sentimental music, which we found as the best way to express our emotions and views.

Prague Band2

Having been separated all over the world since the release of Printemps in 2002, band members gathered together again on-and-off in the summer of 2005 and recorded a new album called Le Pont. Six of the tracks from Le Pont have been used by the Chinese artist Cao Fei in her Whose Utopia video and iMirror (part 1, 2, and 3) Second Life projects and exhibitions…we love her work, its so beautiful…check all of her videos here, they are amazing.

We’ve recently recorded 6 new tracks in Beijing this October; production will be done soon. I recently set up an artist page on Douban.com where all of course are welcome to listen to our old songs and new demos.

What are you reading these days? Listening to? Watching?

Zafka Zhang: I am reading Smart Mobs: The Next Social Revolution. I am listening to Nils Petter Molvaer, Eivind Aarset, and Tortoise, and watching .

56minus1: Thanks Zafka.

// AjS

chats | kaiser kuo ::

Friday, November 7th, 2008

KK

:: Kaiser Kuo is group director of digital strategy for Ogilvy in China. He’s also a thinker, a writer, a metal rocker, and just an all-around mensch. For more on Kaiser, him (he’s everywhere) or continue reading below where he talks about hair, the digital space and online / Internet culture in China, swords, start ups, innovation, Web site wars, those whom he admires, and his addiction to Audible.com.

56minus1: When can we look forward to you cutting your hair? Isn’t it about time? How long have you had it like that, and why?

Kaiser Kuo: What are you, my mother? No, because my mother doesn’t even ask me about my hair. I’ve had it long since the late 80s, though it went through that decade’s obligatory mullet mode briefly. I cut it short for a girl, like an idiot, in 1995. Never again. Why wear it long? I kinda like the stuff. When you’re playing a show it amplifies movement and it looks like I’m working a lot harder than I actually am. A guy like Flea from the Chili Peppers? His neck’s gotta really hurt the next day. I can take a couple of ibuprfofen and be fine, and no one’s the wiser, all ’cause of the hair.

56minus1: OK, but seriously, aren’t you a little too old for this moonlighting rock & roll stuff? Shouldn’t you be at home with your kids or something?

Kaiser Kuo: Oh, c’mon, I’m not that old, am I? At one point I kept telling myself I’d quit when I turned 40, but I’ve pushed that back a decade at least now that that particular milestone is past. Chunqiu will go through periods where it sucks up lots and lots of time, but it’s sporadic. When we’re in cruising mode, not writing a lot of new material and just playing occasional shows, it’s not a big time suck. Even when we’re active, I still manage to spend a lot of time at home with the kids. When we write, we usually do it at my home, with just the singer Yang Meng, the other guitarist Kou Zhengyu, and the keyboardist Li Meng. The kids love to watch rehearsal. They throw the horns, headbang, and hail the cloven-hooved Prince of Darkness like good little Metal munchkins. Generally, we play only one or at most two shows a month in Beijing, and a big national tour like the one we’re about to embark on next week doesn’t happen often. I’ll miss the kids like crazy during that three weeks on the road.

56mimus1: As someone deeply entrenched in China’s digital space, what are your biggest and boldest predictions or thoughts on trends for the Chinese Internet over the next 18 months? What can be expected?

Kaiser Kuo: I’m not one for bold predictions, really, and all bets are off now that the credit crisis is lapping at China’s shores. With funding as tight as it’s going to be in the time frame, you specify, we’ll see a big die-off of companies already in operation, particularly in capital-intensive sectors like Internet video, and we’ll see very few new startups in the Internet space overall getting funded.

That doesn’t mean there won’t be new startups: they’ll just have to be even scrappier, even better at keeping burn low, and revenue-generating pretty much right out of the gate. Any companies that were planning on going that old route of racking up tens of millions of users and then thinking about how to monetize, or assuming they’d have the media agencies beating down their doors and falling over each other to buy inventory, are going to have to seriously rethink their business models.

Companies that are able to make revenue through micropayments or through affiliate referral (like Douban does, or browsers like Maxthon do with search referral), will be in much better shape than non-established players who are counting on ad revenue to keep them afloat. One start-up I really like, called CMUNE, is headquartered here in Beijing but is comprised of a very international team with some really big names attached. They’re not venture backed at all: they’re paying as they go, and they’re doing some super innovative stuff with 3D environments for social networking and collaboration.

Established players will do well this winter, provided it doesn’t last too long. They’re adequately capitalized, already have sales teams in place and strong brands, and they’ll benefit as advertisers try to get the best ROI and shift budgets toward the Internet. Fot me the hottest things of any scale on the Chinese Internet right now aren’t hard to spot: SNS, which is totally on fire in China currently and shows no signs of abating just yet; and Internet video. But these are also the two areas where monetization hasn’t exactly been a cakewalk.

I think we’ll still see some innovation on the fringes: some very cool plug-ins, widgets and other micro-apps, like I think we’re already seeing. But as the once copious flows of venture money start dwindling to a trickle, people are going to get more conservative – both the entrepreneurs and the investors.

KK456minus1: Where are you seeing local Chinese innovation in the digital space, or local Chinese ingenuity among tech entrepreneurs? Where do you expect to see Chinese “digital” innovation coming from in the future?

Kaiser Kuo: I’m seeing local Chinese innovation, but it’s still the rare exception and far from the rule. I’m distrustful of people who either overstate or understate the extent of innovation in the digital space. I’ve seen some pretty laughable examples of both cheerleaders and nay-sayers. Most of what we see is still C2C – Copy to China – but I don’t think that’s because Chinese lack either the ability to innovate or the infrastructure in which to do it. I’m inclined to think it has to do with how venture capital works. You pitch enough VCs and you realize that they don’t have time to hear about your super-disruptive innovation. Not their fault, either: They’re busy guys, they hear a lot of pitches. So for everyone’s comfort and convenience, you end up with a lot of “We’re the [fill in the blank] of China.” You can fill it in with any funded and semi-successful company from the Valley, pretty much. Before this nasty crisis hit, I was saying that I believed that now that the low-hanging C2C fruit had been picked clean and VCs still had a lot of money they had to deploy, they might start reaching into higher branches and finding themselves with more time to listen. I figured entrepreneurs, who from what I’ve seen aren’t short on good ideas, would migrate further up into the canopy, too. But like I said earlier, I’m thinking that’s not as likely to happen soon, with the onset of winter.

56minus1: Who will win the SNS war in China? The C2C war? The microblogging war? The video sharing site war, and any other wars in China you feel qualified to comment on?

Kaiser Kuo: My bet is on Kaixin001.com for SNS, just because it’s really where the cool kids are and it’s got such massive momentum. They grabbed the right niche. You got 51.com, which is still a bit too down market to attract really big brand advertisers, and Xiaonei, which is still too school-days for the white collar urbanites now working at MNCs and such. I’m a totally passive Kaixin user but I get mad numbers of add requests daily. Kaixin’s been milking their second-mover advantage for all it’s worth. They’ve been able to prevent app fatigue, to roll out apps at a controlled pace based on what’s worked elsewhere, and maintain a good user experience.

In C2C there’s little doubt that Taobao will hold its lead, though it’ll give up some ground to Baidu if the latter puts real resources into it. I’m not a big user of the Chinese microblogging services because so many of my Chinese techie friends are already on Twitter, so I don’t really have a sense for how that plays out. None of them have a revenue model anyway, but Lord I do love the microblog phenomenon. Yes, I’m biased in the Internet video war; I’m friends with Gary Wang and Marc Van der Chijs and there’s much I love about the culture of Tudou, but I think from a cold business perspective that Youku’s the horse to bet on.

56minus1: I was going to ask you the boring, obligatory question about censorship, but you have already summed up your thoughts superbly in this from b.TWEEN 08, anything to add?

Kaiser Kuo: Yeah, that speech is about all I have to say on the subject of Internet censorship in China. In case some reader doesn’t feel like listening through that whole thing, I think the best line in it isn’t even mine: It’s Andrew Lih’s. He once said to me, “Chinese Internet users are too busy enjoying the Internet they have to bother worrying about the Internet we think they ought to have.” The main things I really wanted people to take away from that talk were that 1) freedom of speech advocates are barking up the wrong tree in China, focusing on whether this ex-China hosted site or that ex-China hosted site is blocked when they’re mostly irrelevant to 99.9% of Chinese Internet users, when in fact it’s the censorship carried out by operating companies — the BSPs, the BBS operators, etc. — that matters much more to average Chinese people. And 2) that the assumption that because Chinese netizens live in an information-controlled society they’re therefore intellectually stunted just doesn’t help you win friends and influence people.

56minus1: What about your new-ish role at Youku? When and why did get involved? What are you / Youku looking to accomplish?

Kaiser Kuo: I’ve been consulting for Youku since July of this year in a private capacity—that is, I work with Youku but not with an Ogilvy hat on. I love what I do at Ogilvy but I also love being in a start-up environment, especially in a company that’s so well run and shows so much promise, with a team that’s so enthusiastic. I don’t want to blow too much smoke up Youku’s ass, but my impression thus far is that they execute extremely well, and Lord knows they deliver a great user experience. Plus I think Internet video is the coolest thing going. I was basically brought on because Youku needed to boost its international presence: it needed more recognition from the Western media, needed to work more with multinational companies, and needed someone besides Victor (Koo, Youku CEO) who was comfortable presenting and conducting business in English. I’m particularly psyched to have enticed away from Sohu to come work for Youku. He’s doing great stuff already.

KK256minus1: You are close with Victor Koo, I have always had a great deal of respect for Victor, tell us a bit more about him.

Kaiser Kuo: Victor and I go back a long way. We were at Cal Berkeley at the same time – we’re the same age – and though we didn’t know one another there we did have some friends in common. After working for Bain in the Bay Area for a while, he came out to China with a fund called Richina in 1994 I think. When I met him after he had already joined Sohu as CFO, and he was an advisor to an Internet start-up called ChinaNow.com; I was one of that company’s first hires, working as editor-in-chief. (ChinaNow was sort of a cross between Citysearch and Salon.com. We died in 2001, and that was a real tragedy because I really loved that job.) Anyway, back to Victor: He went on to help founder/CEO Charles Zhang take Sohu public. He became COO, then finally president there. By that time, in late 2005 I think, I was China bureau chief at Red Herring, and when Victor left Sohu he promised me I’d be the first journo he’d tell about his next gig. There was all sorts of speculation that he was going to Google, that he was going to some VC fund or another. So one day, back from a six-month sabbatical where he traveled around the world, he calls me and we meet up, and he tells me that he’s started a “search fund,” which means he raised a bunch of money on nothing but the promise that he and the team he’d gathered around him were going to put it into something good. I wrote a half-hearted story about that, and he promised that when he decided what the “search fund” would actually do, he’d let me know.

Finally, he did let me know: He was doing an Internet video sharing site. I literally laughed out loud. At the time there were so damned many of them in China, and bandwidth costs were already sky-high. I couldn’t see how he could catch Tudou, or some of the other ones that looked promising at the time. But he kicked ass. By the time I left Red Herring at the end of 2006, Youku was already gaining on Tudou, and a year later, they were neck and neck. Youku’s comfortably out ahead now, I’m confident in asserting. I like Tudou: big respect. But I do think Youku has out-executed them this year.

56minus1: Aren’t you also involved at a number of other start ups?

I’m doing a lot of advising to start-ups, mostly in China. It’s one of the best things about the Ogilvy gig — exposing me to some great entrepreneurs and their companies. Some of these include:

Linkool, which makes a super-cool Firefox 3 app called Juice, headed by my good friend Jin Xiaofeng with a supporting cast that includes the amazing Thijs Jacobs as CTO;

Pinyou, a performance marketing company that aspires to be China’s first real behavioral targeting play, founded by an ex-P&G, ex-McKinsey consultant named Grace Huang;

ReKoo, a widget media company headed by former eFriendsNet COO Liu Yong, with apps doing very, very well on a number of open- and semi-open SNSs and other platforms in China, and also builds apps for OpenSocial and Facebook;

Baodou, a P2P video company based here in Beijing founded by whiz-kid named Zhai Yu, and believe me this company has a really disruptive business model I can’t tell you about but wish I could;

And most recently there’s Nutshell (that’s the working name), a social media play still very much in stealth mode, founded by a magician – really, as in rabbit-out-of-the-hat, pick-a-card-any-card magician. He’s taught me some pretty cool tricks already. I still suck at them, but I’m getting there.

I’m also an alternate board member – more of an adviser, really – to Wangyou, and I’m helping out (nothing formal yet) with a cool non-China-focused start-up called Me-2-B that’s a bit like e-Lancer.

Oh, and I’m advising Friendster, too, which has refocused its attention on the markets where it’s really strong—chiefly, Southeast Asia.

Basically I help these companies out where I can with introductions to people I know who might be helpful to them, help out with publicity and with brainstorming, and that sort of thing. Hopefully my network, if not my personally, is useful. It’s not like I can pitch in with the coding or anything.

56minus1: What exactly do you do at Ogilvy? Most people just think of you as a the company’s lead digital badass for China, how accurate is that?

It’s weird how I’ve earned that reputation. I came to Ogilvy with no agency experience whatsoever; I was a journalist, and a rock musician. Sure, I’d worked in a few startups, but never in a marketing capacity. To this day I don’t have much experience actually executing on the kinds of things I think and write about. I’m really just a guy whose job it is to keep up on what’s happening in digital marketing, to answer questions they might have about who’s doing what and how new technologies might impact our business, and to keep people in the company up to date on the latest in digital through internal training sessions and the like. I also meet a lot of companies and do a first “smell test” to see whether they’re people we’d like to work with, or perhaps invest in. Not that the latter happens too frequently, but I really do enjoy that part of the job. Like I said I love the work at Ogilvy: it’s really low-BS, no politics to deal with, no one rides me, and I get to spend a good chunk of my day simply reading industry news, writing about what’s happening, meeting with cool entrepreneurs and industry people, and playing with all sorts of new Internet stuff. I’m also encouraged to do outside projects, like advisory roles of the sort I’ve been taking on of late.

I’m really a digital marketing guy in theory only, not so much in practice. I hope that a year from now I can say I’ve had enough practice that I can stop apologizing to people for my deficiencies, but that’s the truth right now. At Ogilvy there are tons of practitioners who can run circles around me in terms of real technology, and who have years and years more experience than I do in actually doing digital marketing.

[UPDATE: Kaiser has since resigned from his role at Ogilvy. 1/16/09 AjS]

56minus1: In a recent interview you did with Shel Israel you said you “didnt think enough gets written about the specific ways in which the emerging Chinese Internet culture really differs from digital culture in the West, or Japan, or other developed markets.” Here’s your chance.

It wouldn’t be easy to give a sense of the “culture,” because so much of that is wrapped up in language and in the social and political context, and that really would take a book to say anything worthwhile about. What I can do is point to some of the major physical features of the landscape that have either shaped or been shaped by Chinese Internet culture. This is all old hat for anyone living in China and familiar with the Internet, and those people are invited to skip down to the next question.

China’s Internet is its first real public sphere, and within certain limitations – and the envelope’s always being stretched, mind you – it’s a free-for-all of ideas, from the sublime to the idiotic. More of the latter, as you have anywhere, but the point is there’s just a ton being said out there on the BBSs and the blogs, in the SNSs and in the comments on the video sites. Just about anywhere where people can sound off, they are.

China’s Internet is now the meme pool for youth culture. It’s really the crucible of contemporary culture, as I’ve said many times because I have a weakness for alliteration. It’s where new language is born, where new literary talent gets discovered, it’s where music (most of it awful, admittedly) gets popularized, and it’s where brands can either soar or get completely obliterated. Language travels from the Internet to everyday life. A phrase like PK which comes from MMORPGs is now everyday parlance, even to people who’ve never touched a computer. You did that great post on Internet slang, so you know what I’m talking about.

It’s still all about entertainment. China’s Internet experience never had a pre-GUI phase. It was never the exclusive domain of nerds. It had no life before its consumer-facing life. This gives it a very different vibe compared to the Internet in the U.S. This is especially reinforced by the very young average age of a Chinese Internet user relative to his or her American counterpart – I believe the average age of a broadband subscriber in America is 42, compared to 32 in China, and subscribers are generally heads of household, so actual users are probably on average even younger in China. With the entertainment-focused, youth-skewed nature of the Chinese Internet 1) games become a huge part of Internet life, so that online games did about 70% more revenue in 2007 than online advertising, 2) IM is totally huge, relative to the more formal email, with over 80% of Chinese using IM and only about 57% using email, 3) Internet video is massive, both Flash-based and P2P (which, by the way, is hyper-developed in China, 4) Enterprise-focused web services and apps are a relative rarity

Anyway, these are all relatively superficial features of the topography, like I said. What would be more interesting to do would be to look at how Internet users in China, who are predominantly one-child families, the majority having been born after the policies went into effect, relate socially on the Internet. I’d love to see sociological studies of online lives and offline lives. There’s a whole lot of great social science that can be done around the Internet culture. Unfortunately, in English at least, what we’ve seen tends to focus on things like the infamous fenqing (愤青) — the angry youth who supposedly represent this deep-seated anti-westernism lurking menacingly beneath the surface. Sure, there’s some of that. But it’s a whole lot more complicated than you get just from a casual reading of the popular media.

KK356minus1: Details on your sword collection?

Kaiser Kuo: My wife Fanfan calls it my “scrap metal collection.” It started off with some touristy knick-knacks I bought traveling in Central Asia in the late 90s – a couple of scimitars from Uzbekistan, some knives from Mongolia – and then I really started getting into it, reading up and learning a bit with people I met at antiques markets in Beijing. It’s actually not such an impressive collection, and it’s not limited to swords. I have a couple of bows I’m rather fond of. There’s nothing particularly valuable in it, though, and my wife is pretty much opposed to my adding anything to it for the time being. But I’ve got some cool Tibetan spearheads, various bayonets, cavalry sabers, a falchion from Austria circa World War I, some Japanese katanas that I quite like, and of course a number of Chinese swords from the late Qing. Don’t worry, it’s all safely out of reach of my children.

56minus1: You wrote a humorous piece just before the Olympics that I reposted on Danwei titled “Forbidden Clichés: A guide for visiting journalists” that caused quite a stir among readers / commenters. Any thoughts on what is wrong with all the people that hated on you / the piece?

Kaiser Kuo: I was initially baffled that there were people who took such umbrage to what I thought was obviously a tongue-in-cheek piece. I didn’t imagine anyone would think I intended that the piece actually be read by visiting journalists and taken seriously. Apparently some thought did think just that, and I can see how given that assumption they could have interpreted it as insufferably pedantic. Still, I don’t get how people can work themselves up into such a lather about something as innocuous as a little column in an inconsequential expat magazine.

56minus1: Where is Kaiser Kuo in 10 years and what is he doing?

Kaiser Kuo: One thing’s for sure: I’ll still be in Beijing. I may die of upper respiratory disease, I may die of hunger while stuck in a traffic jam, but I’m staying in Beijing. Hopefully I’ll be writing for a living by then: that’s what I’d really like to be doing. And with luck I’ll still be playing music—doubtless something much more mellow. Maybe a “The Wiggles” for China. Or not. Anyway I’m sure I’ll be worrying myself sick about my daughter, who’ll be a teenager in ten years. Ugh.

56minus1: A few people you admire, and why?

Kaiser Kuo: Some caveats here: I’m limiting myself to living people because the list gets way too long otherwise. And while there are just tons of people I admire, I’m limiting this to admiration of the “We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy!” sort. So here goes:

Richard Dawkins. I admire him because he’s a clear thinker, a first-rate scientist, a terrific writer, and a fearless critic of theism. I’ve read a bunch of his books, most recently The Ancestor’s Tale, and I never tire of him. The God Delusion is just amazing.

Barack Obama. Seriously, I’ve been a big supporter since he announced his candidacy, and I’ve been watching him since the 04 Convention speech. My admiration for him has only grown. I’ve read both his books (as well as listened to both as audio books, read by Obama himself – something I highly recommend!) and the man’s prose is outstanding. Our president elect is a man of obvious integrity, intellect, compassion, and superb political instinct. I would so be his bitch.

Cormac McCarthy: Actually I know very little about the man, but I’ve read every novel of his and I just can’t get enough of him. If you haven’t read Blood Meridian you’ve missed the best American novel since the days of Mark Twain.

56minus1: Don’t you have a book coming out soon?

It’s called Ich Bin Ein Beijinger and it’s a collection of the satirical columns, short stories, and silly doggerel I’ve written for that’s Beijing and The Beijinger over the last seven years. It’s really a Beijing-specific sort of thing that won’t travel beyond the Fifth Ring Road – well, maybe to the Shunyi expat ghetto – and has a pretty short shelf-life, but I’m glad I’m finally getting a damned book out.

56minus1: The top 5 local Chinese bloggers (Chinese language) you regularly read?

Kaiser Kuo: I can barely keep up with all the reading I need to do in English, so when I read Chinese these days, it’s mostly news—and then it’s usually an article that some Twitter friend of mine links to, or that some reliably good recommender-of-reads like Bill Bishop sends me. When I do feel like reading a Chinese blog I’ll read Hung Huang, who’s so reliably funny and cutting, or Keso, who has such good insight into the tech industry. After all these years my Chinese reading is still slow, I’m ashamed to say. I read so much faster in English that often I just choose the path of least resistance.

KK556minus1: What are you reading these days? Listening to? Watching?

Reading: I’m re-reading Vera Schwarcz’s book about the May Fourth Movement, The Chinese Enlightenment. Unbelievable how much relevance it still has for very recent intellectual history in China. I just finished Tony Judt’s Reappraisals, which is a collection mainly of things he’s written in the last decade or so for the New York Review of Books. That man’s utterly fearless, and represents what’s best in intellectuals, I think. I could never court controversy the way he does. What a mind, though.

Listening: I’m addicted to audio books and podcasts. They are, to me, the best Beijing life-hack there is. If you live here, you’re in cabs, in lines, and on public transportation a lot. Now I have no fear of long cab or subway rides. I subscribe to loads of podcasts from NPR (my favorites being “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” and the Mid-day Magazine), PRI (This American Life, Selected Shorts, The World), the NYT (though the audio quality sucks — what’s up with that?), the tech report from the WSJ… it’s a bit of an obsession with me. As for audio books, I recently listened to a great version of Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from Audible. It was amazing. I just downloaded The March by E. L. Doctorow. I love Audible. I keep those guys in business. As for music, I’ve been listening to a singer-songwriter named David Berkeley a bunch, and to this dark progressive Metal band from Sweden called . They rock.

Watching: I just watched the whole two-plus seasons of Chapelle’s Show, which my colleague at Ogilvy lent me. I think Dave Chapelle is a serious comic genius, and now that Obama’s won the Whitehouse, it’s time for him to come back to Comedy Central. Recently my wife and I watched the first couple of seasons of Chuck, which was good silly fun to wind down with in the evening. I’m catching episodes of the new HBO show True Blood on a certain Chinese Internet video site which shall remain nameless, and quite enjoying that.

56minus1: Thinking big picture here, what has the Internet done to change China over the past 10 years or so, and how do u see it shaping China’s future?

Kaiser Kuo: That’s what my next book’s about, hopefully! No spoilers here.

56minus1: Thanks Kaiser

// AjS

chats | jenny zhu ::

Monday, November 3rd, 2008

:: Jenny Zhu is the unforgettable voice and personality behind Chinesepod.com’s world-famous Chinese language learning podcasts.

jenny 256minus1: Rumor has it you are dating / engaged to Praxis Language (ChinesePod parent company) founder and CEO Hank Horkoff. What’s it like to date the boss?

Jenny Zhu: 56minus1 isn’t a gossip blog, right?

56minus1: No, its not.

56minus1: Are you tired of doing ChinesePod podcasts? How long do you plan on doing this? Whats on the horizon for Jenny Zhu?

Jenny Zhu: My alter ego must be a flaming narcissist, because I completely in love being in the studio, and I’ve never felt tired of it. It also helps that we do a new lesson everyday. I won’t be in the ChinesePod podcasts forever though, but I hope to always be involved in some way. As I always say to this question, I hope to age gracefully on ChinesePod. In terms of future plans, most of my working life has been about mobile learning. That’s what I know and love. So I hope to remain in the field but extend beyond teaching Chinese. Well, that’s getting too geeky.

56minus1: In many ways ChinesePod is Jenny Zhu, but Jenny Zhu is certainly not just ChinesePod, what would ChinesePod do if / when you leave?

Jenny Zhu: That’s way too flattering. But much more powerful than my role is the core value of ChinesePod. It’s authentic, quirky and always pushing the envelope in learning. That will always stay no matter who hosts the lessons.

56minus1: What do you think of foreigners that live and work in China and dont speak Chinese? What value could they possible add to modern China?

Jenny Zhu: I think not everyone is in the situation that allows them to learn Chinese, especially if you are a busy professional. But I also think that attitude is important too, whether you embrace the life, culture, and language, etc. I lived overseas for 10 years and I benefitted hugely from learning a different language, because it opens the door to another world. But on the other hand, people who don’t speak Chinese bring something very valuable too: diversity. The fact that one can live here happily the way they are is very imporatnt in its own right.

56minus1: Recently there has been a big stir online in China about a Shanghai radio station that broadcasted a program in which the host said Shanghainese people speaking the local Shanghai dialect in public was a bad habit and that Shanghai people use it to show that they are superior to other Chinese people, foreigners, etc. You are Shanghainese (sorta), what are your thoughts on this? Do you think Shanghainese is a “bad habit” of a language? Your thoughts on local Shanghainese culture vs. non-Shanghainese Chinese or foreign culture?

Jenny Zhu: That’s not news. Shanghainese traditionally felt a sense of superiority over outsiders (Chinese from elsewhere and foreigners) because the city was the quintessential metroplis in China. And it was quite an exclusive and negative attitude. For many decades, some people would even express that quite openly, e.g. discriminating those who didn’t speak the dialect. But that has changed a lot now. There is such a large number of non-natives living in Shanghai, and that’s had a significant impact on how we define local identity and see non-locals. I think every city has to have its own defining character, but it should never be exclusive and dismissive of others. As with myself, although I’m native, I always spoke Mandarin at home. But when I was a kid, I did feel obliged to speak Shanghainese when I went out-and-about for reasons you talked about. However, I don’t feel that way now.

jenny 356minus1: Jenny Zhu is said to be hugely narcissistic, tell us about that.

Jenny Zhu: It’s official, I’m a self-confessed narcissist. But I think a healthy sense of narcissism is quite important to work of a performance nature. You need to be acutely aware of what you are doing and get yourself pumped in order to make the content engaging to the listener. That engagingness is especially important for an educational podcast.

56minus1: What did you think of Liu Xiang’s (lack of) performance in the Beijing Olympics?

Jenny Zhu: Seeing him exit the stadium was shocking and sad. But it’s good character building for us. We need to take the load off the poor kid and off sports in general .

56minus1: What about your new-ish blog, JennyZhu.com? When and why did you start that? Why is it in English? What kind of content are you focusing on?

Jenny Zhu: I started my blog right before the Olympics (wishing to capitalise on the hype). Well, what really drove me to blog is the implications of the China hype. There is a lot of curiosity, fascination but also misunderstanding about China and vice versa. And I think that affects us who live in a cross cultural environment on a very personal level. You want to observe and share your thoughts. I blog in English because a large chunk of my socialisation is in English, and that I hope the blog will be of some value to learners of Chinese or those interested in China.

56minus1: Everyone that knows you knows that you are a “5 dollar word” kind of person. Your English and Chinese vocabulary is mega impressive. Why is that? Are you trying too hard? Or, is it just a result of your passion for languages and linguistics?

Jenny Zhu: I’m rubbish at math, absolutely hopeless. But as often the case with those that don’t excel in math and science, I tend to be more of a language person. More importantly, I went to Singapore when I was 14 and was schooled in English for 10 years. It’s a combination of some talent, but mostly passion, hard work and TV. I came of age watching Jeopardy and David Letterman.

56minus1: Tell the world something it doesnt know about Jenny Zhu and won’t find out anywhere else.

Jenny Zhu: I’ve never gotten drunk in my life. But that’s because the most I’ve ever had to drink is a full glass of wine over the span of 2 hours. I think I’m dangerously safe, no?

56minus1: You probably have some online stalkers, tell us some details. Also, are you currently stalking anyone?

Jenny Zhu: Fortunately, I’m only aware of people who freqeuently comment on ChinesePod and my blog, not stalkers. Does checking on Taobao every 10 mins makes me a stalker?

56minus1: No.

56minus1: Ken Carroll’s Chinese is terrible, isnt it? Tell us how bad it is. And John Pasden, his Chinese is incredible…how good is it?

Jenny Zhu: Terrible? No way! Ken has a very authentic command of Chinese. Everything he says is structured in a way that a native would speak. He is a strong believer in the communicative approach to language learning. And he is the best embodiment of that, although he occasionally misses a tone. John Pasden, what more needs to be said about someone who completes his master’s in linguistics, all in Chinese! To quote a ChinesePod user, he is a ‘mountain of linguistic strength’. And they [Ken and John] are just awesome people.

jenny 156minus1: If you could vote in the upcoming US presidential election, who would you vote for?

Jenny Zhu: Obama! For reasons well reiterated. He really does respresent many core values that America is founded on, which are very powerful and inspiring universally.

56minus1: Whats your favorite color?

Jenny Zhu: White. Simple, clean.

56minus1: What do you want to learn more about in life / the world?

Jenny Zhu: Being at peace with myself and the world, live with gratitude and always always have passion for what happens in the world and doing something to make it slightly better.

56minus1: What are you listening to these days? Reading? Watching?

Jenny Zhu: I can’t function without The Economist, Open Source, HBR Idea Cast, the Bugle, the Daily Show, and Letterman. I’m also addicted to MadMen and Saturday Night Live.

56minus1: Thanks Jenny.

// AjS